[NOVA] Make nova payable

[gavin_darkglider 1562]

Data is data and you're absolutely right it follows very similar principles of the local bus in a PC. Didn't know Link was based off the transport layer. Its a shame we can't circumvent it to run from the data link layer and incorporate ipv6 to just connect players via their mac address.

That would probably greatly improve the connection speed I think.

IPv6 isnt an option that I think the 360 supports, let alone most home routers. That being said, Link V2 is supposed to get away from the http protocol, and then it will probably get moved into the data link layer, which will speed up loading of stuff in the hud a little. Hince why link v1 will no longer work after link v2 is released.

[StaticPulse 262]

IPv6 isnt an option that I think the 360 supports, let alone most home routers. That being said, Link V2 is supposed to get away from the http protocol, and then it will probably get moved into the data link layer, which will speed up loading of stuff in the hud a little. Hince why link v1 will no longer work after link v2 is released.

I'm really looking forward to Link V2 then, running from DLL would be AWESOME. I'd think any router that has been made within the last 4-6 years should have ipv6 functionality so that locally the 360 would run ipv4 but once it hits the router it would encapsulate to ipv6. As it stands, once it reaches your ISP it's already encapsulated to IPV6.  So it'd kinda make it work like a truly local game or an ARP request but over long distances which would be freaking insane! Only problem would be writing an ipv6 plugin for Link I think.

[QuattroGam3r 508]

IPv6 isnt an option that I think the 360 supports

yeah, I think not. 

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/network/hh994905.aspx

[StaticPulse 262]

yeah, I think not. 

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/network/hh994905.aspx

aww....  =\ Yeah I doubt anyone is going to put the time into writing the framework for xbox 360 ever... at all...   lol

[gavin_darkglider 1562]

I'm really looking forward to Link V2 then, running from DLL would be AWESOME. I'd think any router that has been made within the last 4-6 years should have ipv6 functionality so that locally the 360 would run ipv4 but once it hits the router it would encapsulate to ipv6. As it stands, once it reaches your ISP it's already encapsulated to IPV6.  So it'd kinda make it work like a truly local game or an ARP request but over long distances which would be freaking insane! Only problem would be writing an ipv6 plugin for Link I think.

You will still be stuck with the limitations of IPv4 over IPv6, which means you will still be stuck with the limitations of IPv4. There really is no way around that, unless MS decides to change that in a kernel update, which probably isnt on their priority list. Also, I can say with certainty that most of the users on this site, and in the US are still getting IPv4 Addresses from their ISP. IPv6 was invented because they were running out of IP addresses, but it hasnt been implemented world wide yet, and is more of a working concept. I have worked on many networks, both home and business and have never once had a system running IPv6, many that support it, but never once have I had one actually using it. That being said, who knows what the future holds.

 

As for Nova, we really need to wait and see what happens in the future, as I am in the same boat as all of you on that. Other then knowing who will probably be testing it, I have no idea when the test phase of nova will start, what ideas will be integrated, and what wont. It is a matter of wait and see.

[QuattroGam3r 508]

Yeah, I got all fired up about ipv6 a few years ago, but everywhere i turned support was limited. Each device has to support it, plus router (if that's the case), then modem, ISP and finally server. I use comcast, and even though they do dole out ipv6 addresses, the modems they rent usually don't. I got around that by buying my own Moto surfboard modem, only to find out that My computer always preferred ipv4 over ipv6. Straying from topic a bit, but I just wanted to share my woes with even trying to use ipv6. 

Of course things might have changed a bit since then, but it's still going to be a slow adoption. Sometimes people don't like to fix shit till it breaks lolz

[StaticPulse 262]

Yeah, I got all fired up about ipv6 a few years ago, but everywhere i turned support was limited. Each device has to support it, plus router (if that's the case), then modem, ISP and finally server. I use comcast, and even though they do dole out ipv6 addresses, the modems they rent usually don't. I got around that by buying my own Moto surfboard modem, only to find out that My computer always preferred ipv4 over ipv6. Straying from topic a bit, but I just wanted to share my woes with even trying to use ipv6. 

Of course things might have changed a bit since then, but it's still going to be a slow adoption. Sometimes people don't like to fix shit till it breaks lolz

The Surfboards and Arris modems are all 6to4 encapsulated now. And if you have a gigabit ethernet card it is also dual protocol. Really the only things that aren't are people in rural areas from what I've seen and discussed with the installers and engineers that I know. What was decided by internic was that all tiered ISP lines would be IPv6 and IPv4 would remain available for local subnets only. Same shit on the end user side but all infrastructure in most countries is now IPv6 it really doesnt matter locally as it will all NAT out to an IPv6 address and locally what they do intend to implement is mac address based traffic natted to your leased IPv6 address. You will still be allowed to use IPv4 subnets but any OS Windows 7 and up running gigabit, wireless N, and wireless AC will be IPv4-IPv6 based by default.

 

The only real problem with it is AAA services and other security feature for routers that have not been fully patched.

[QuattroGam3r 508]

I have Comcast triple play. The modems with phone service do not (yet?) support this. Yes windows will allow IPv6 but my Mac still prefers IPv4 over 6. Apple has issues with IPv6 protocol, or at least they used to state they did, that's why they still force v4

 

I agree with the NAT thing

[scorpNZ 207]

i'll gladly host a game or 2, and show you the "LACK OF LAG" to which you are complaining about lolz..

didn't say that i wouldn't.. but "clan-warz" is childish.. but we can play some..

you can play with your friends vs me.. in a free-for-all.. so i know your clan isn't cheating.. hahahaha

got like 15 trainers running and shit hahaha

lmfao..That brings back memories..good times..good times in regards to clan wars.Ok so it was a while ago on a different platform (also a much smaller community OZ & NZ ) everybody knew everybody else online & in the sony forum down under,but yeah curse the other team when in a game lobby (using headsets) & then back in the forum making posts like such n' such clans are a bunch of laggy hacks..lol..obviously this was all in jest

[StaticPulse 262]

I have Comcast triple play. The modems with phone service do not (yet?) support this. Yes windows will allow IPv6 but my Mac still prefers IPv4 over 6. Apple has issues with IPv6 protocol, or at least they used to state they did, that's why they still force v4

 

I agree with the NAT thing

If you go here http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/ and click the ipv6 column, it will display all of the current IPv6 capable modems that Comcast currently uses. Only 9 modems that they support don't use IPv6.

my Arris TM-722 is on that list and its one of the VOIP capable modems.

I'm really not suprised about Apple, remember when they tried to force Appletalk on their customer base when IPv4 was released for everything else and Apple held out until the last moment before adopting it? Same situation here I think.

[xDRAGONxLuky 54]

umm apearantly you don't understand how bandwidth works.. how little the "hud" has access to the ram/CPU to produce the loading of the rooms.. versus the entire 512mb that the XB has.. you apparently blame unity for your shit connection that i watched you have while playing a game hosted by your "clan croonie"..  you red-bared left/right.. but try and blame something that ISNT the problem??

but still, you bitch about unity being slow, and want Nova to be paid for.. but yet haven't donated 1 cent to the cause now? hypocritical.. 

how is something supposed to be produced without funding? lmao.. but all in all.. you are entitled to your own opinion.. just 2 other people gave you various reasons as to why your loading sucks ass.. but yet everyone else is wrong.. as you are implying that i should admit i was wrong? lmao.. i wasn't.. 

there are several reasons why YOU take forever to load unity, VS others.. 

felida

everyone has moved on but your still all fired up i see

 

so regarding the game that you watched:

everyone knows that you have to check the connection when the match begins, because when few people die the displayed bars do not show correctly. if you dont believe me you can ask any bo2 player... but again ur the pro felida..

when MrSASA was hosting i had 1 bar? he lives 50km from where i live (have visited him few times) and he has 120mb download and 4mb upload and he is skilled in seting things up. i have 10/1 connection and atleast 70% is always reserved for my xbox. on every host from europe i get atleast 3 bars, but you know better than me of course. yesterday i had 0 lag ingame (because players with 1 bar were kicked). you were playing yesterday? didnt even notice. dont u have headset?

 

and again felida i have no idea why you still talk about ingame lag when i told several times that this thread has nothing to do with ingame lag. 

 

and i do not bitch about unity being slow, i just asked what will happen when loads of people will join and gave a suggestion on how to tackle this problem, but yes i am a real jerk

 

about why i did not donate:

i am doing my masters and i dont have a job. i think 2x before spending money. but if we stepped up as a community and everyone would chip in, than i would be the first one to do so (obviously since i made this suggestion). 

 

felida: "how is something supposed to be produced without funding?"

i agree with you. thats why i made this thread. we would probably need more than 5€ for a new server or internet connection or whatever the devs need. this is why i suggested that everyone pays a tiny bit and we all benefit from it. but i guess you did not read my posts.

 

felida: "there are several reasons why YOU take forever to load unity, VS others.."

what do you mean? when unity is slow for me and i ask others in party and they say its also slow for them. but again your the pro for playing 1x per week. someone posted a link on how to correctly setup the router (i appreciate it) and my settings are correct. so please tell me those reasons so that i will make changes to my setup.

 

and its really strange how you completely disagree with everything that i post.

but if you dont believe me, maybe than this men can help you:

 

Your suggestion won't solve the problem but it does bring up the possibility of problems in the future if we ever get that many people connecting at the same time.

 

And yes, there might be an issue with more ppl on LiNK making the server slower, it's all managed in a SQL Database, now the queries might be possible to optimize, or even make it so that the console handles more of the filtering... hell, even making different tables for different titles might make things faster... there are ways of making it all run faster, but it all boils down to what the devs are willing to spend time on right now, a few seconds here and there, or a few milliseconds which it most likely is in most cases isn't going to make it worth spending ALOT of time for...

With NOVA things will likely work better, we're not about to go patching up LiNK v1 just before LiNK v2 comes out, we've fixed a bunch of things, which we deemed important, which wasn't super time consuming...

I like the idea of having something you can pay for that'll give you something extra, something that gives you the urge to donate... but, i'd probably say it's better to have it just be "Donate and we give you ....", this gives more ppl the urge to donate to the cause...

The server isn't particularly old, but it does do multiple tasks, maybe if things grow too much there'll be expansions coming, but that also requires ALOT more donations, right now for instance, there's not enough donations to actually cover all the costs some times, even with the ads that are on the various sites (RMS, Unity and so on) it doesn't always cover the costs of current servers... we're not going to increase the costs unless it's absolutely necessary...

 

 

Just gonna add my 2 cents here......

I am not against having new players/accounts pay a little bit per year, but I do think that people that have been supporting link since day 1, Like I have been, and many others, especially those that have gone above and beyond for the advancement of the scene should not have to pay at all. then there is the whole thought process of other services, such as Xlink Kai, which have been around longer, and could easily be used to replace link, if people didnt want to pay for the service. 

 

All that being said, there are more ways to donate to the scene, other than money. I can hardly pay my bills, but my donations are all in helping others out with their xbox problems, modderating these forums, writing/testing new apps, etc. I am sure if you talk to the right people you will find that there are other ways to donate, that are just as helpful, if not more helpful, than money. 

 

[StaticPulse 262]

when MrSASA was hosting i had 1 bar? he lives 50km from where i live (have visited him few times) and he has 120mb download and 4mb upload and he is skilled in seting things up. i have 10/1 connection and atleast 70% is always reserved for my xbox. on every host from europe i get atleast 3 bars

 

I find this very interesting because I have 28 down and 5 up with no lag whatsoever at all of any kind, ask Felida, he schooled me on the zombies yesterday in BOPS. I don't even have QoS reserved for my xbox but then again I have a high quality router D-Link DIR857 and its an older model. Then again it is an HD Media router so its designed for stronger stuff than a p2p game.

Honestly, with the bandwidth you're claiming that is given to you guys in Europe, you should be lightyears ahead of my piddly ass 30mbit connect. So in that regard, this is most likely a Layer 8 issue on the OSI model. ( So sez my Cisco professor in situations like this ) I'm gonna go watch some TV now on my Kodi Android device and rethink my life and wonder why I don't own a house yet.

[xDRAGONxLuky 54]

I find this very interesting because I have 28 down and 5 up with no lag whatsoever at all of any kind, ask Felida, he schooled me on the zombies yesterday in BOPS. I don't even have QoS reserved for my xbox but then again I have a high quality router D-Link DIR857 and its an older model. Then again it is an HD Media router so its designed for stronger stuff than a p2p game.

Honestly, with the bandwidth you're claiming that is given to you guys in Europe, you should be lightyears ahead of my piddly ass 30mbit connect. So in that regard, this is most likely a Layer 8 issue on the OSI model. ( So sez my Cisco professor in situations like this ) I'm gonna go watch some TV now on my Kodi Android device and rethink my life and wonder why I don't own a house yet.

maybe i wrote i a bit strange. felida said he saw me laging. so the question was for felida if he saw me laging when MrSASA was hosting because that would be nuts since he lives next to me. and i never get any lag if i connect to a european host with more than 1mb upload and of course if there are no people with wireless or really bad connection or downloading.

 

and the part about the house... omg i get u... i am 25 and i live at my parents place.. how pathetic

[scorpNZ 207]

Define what you mean by you don't get any lag,are you saying you don't lag or you don't see others lagging

[StaticPulse 262]

Define what you mean by you don't get any lag,are you saying you don't lag or you don't see others lagging

Neither. No lag on my end and there was definitely no lag on his end and he lives on the east coast of the US I live in California. Honestly, if you just organize matches in your region you should be fine. With what Gavin was saying about Link V2, things should improve a great deal with all packets operating from the data link layer instead of the transport protocol layer.

That shit's going to be phenomenal!

[gavin_darkglider 1562]

With what Gavin was saying about Link V2, things should improve a great deal with all packets operating from the data link layer instead of the transport protocol layer.

This should not effect in game traffic, as it will still be running on a VPN, just connection, and request times for room joining, and loading of room lists. I could be wrong about that, so dont quote me, but I wouldnt expect the actual VPN part to get any better, just the choosing of what VPN/Room to connect to.

[felida 1653]

 

felida

everyone has moved on but your still all fired up i see

 

so regarding the game that you watched:

everyone knows that you have to check the connection when the match begins, because when few people die the displayed bars do not show correctly. if you dont believe me you can ask any bo2 player... but again ur the pro felida..

when MrSASA was hosting i had 1 bar? he lives 50km from where i live (have visited him few times) and he has 120mb download and 4mb upload and he is skilled in seting things up. i have 10/1 connection and atleast 70% is always reserved for my xbox. on every host from europe i get atleast 3 bars, but you know better than me of course. yesterday i had 0 lag ingame (because players with 1 bar were kicked). you were playing yesterday? didnt even notice. dont u have headset?

and whats funny is that I never dropped below 3 bars in that game.. and yes i have a headset.. point is your internet sucks.. and your complaining saying that it doesn't.. get a better connection lolz

and i'm not fired up at all.. 

and for the bars, lets go with live statistics here, your connection fluctuates all the time, hence why it will drop down to 1 bar, back up to 3 bars.. all you have to do is press the back button in game and it shows you your connection, constantly updated all the time.. NOTHING TO DO WITH THE START OF THE GAME.. lolz

[scorpNZ 207]

Any of you actually reaching the upload speeds you've mentioned because from where i'm sitting 4-5mbps up is pretty shite.For me that would equate to 1.2mbps actual.The speed test i just did says 5mbps  yeah like frak it is i only get a max of 1.2mbps even when torrenting hard or uploading to mega.My download is double the upload,my pings pretty good it's at 6ms 50mi

 

edit: i'm on a vdsl connection using copper,which somewhere down the road has fibre connected to it,my understanding is i have to be 800mtr's from the exchange to be able to get vdsl i think

[felida 1653]

Any of you actually reaching the upload speeds you've mentioned because from where i'm sitting 4-5mbps up is pretty shite.For me that would equate to 1.2mbps actual.The speed test i just did says 5mbps  yeah like frak it is i only get a max of 1.2mbps even when torrenting hard or uploading to mega.My download is double the upload,my pings pretty good it's at 6ms 50mi

 

edit: i'm on a vdsl connection using copper,which somewhere down the road has fibre connected to it,my understanding is i have to be 800mtr's from the exchange to be able to get vdsl i think

ok, for starters.. your speeds from test/ISP are MegaBITS per second.. not megaBYTES.. hence your confusion.. ;-)

[xDRAGONxLuky 54]

and whats funny is that I never dropped below 3 bars in that game.. and yes i have a headset.. point is your internet sucks.. and your complaining saying that it doesn't.. get a better connection lolz

and i'm not fired up at all.. 

and for the bars, lets go with live statistics here, your connection fluctuates all the time, hence why it will drop down to 1 bar, back up to 3 bars.. all you have to do is press the back button in game and it shows you your connection, constantly updated all the time.. NOTHING TO DO WITH THE START OF THE GAME.. lolz

felida

really funny how i replyed to you with half of a page and you reply only to the part that has nothing to do with this thread. probably on every page i said atleast 1x that this thread has nothing to do with in-game lag... but that is all you still talk about. and its also really funny how i quote how 3 people with great knowledge atleast partially agree with what i said and you just ignore that . 

 

now for the fluctuating bars you saw. like i said, when few people die the bars do not show correctly. i dont know why it happens but it does. its common knowledge in bo2 community. thats why we kick only people that have 1 bar at the start of the game. and if you dont believe me we can go search and destroy and set the time to 10minutes and just watch the bars. i will have atleast 3 bars always. so how come? i play bo2 every day for several hours, but again your the pro felida..

and again, dont take my word for it (because i know that no matter what i say, you wont believe me anyway), ask any bo2 player that plays search and destroy.

 

and also like gavin stated, there is more than 1 way to contribute to the community. i spent countless hours searching the web on how to optimize my internet connection for my xbox. i even drilled a hole in the ceiling, so that i could connect my xbox directly to the router. i flashed tomato by shibby, i configured bandwidth limiter. the only thing that i wish i would be able to do is configure the qos... qos on tomato is impossible to understand for me. i know how it works, i just dont know how to set it up. if you or someone else would help me to configure that, i would be really happy. so now what i do is if someone else wants to use youtube when i play i have to limit his upload speed to max 5-10% of the upload, and than turn it off, since i dont want to limit them when i dont play. i would get a better internet connection, so that i would be able to offer my connection to others by hosting, but since i am broke i am not able to do that...

 

any other questions felida?

[StaticPulse 262]

 

and also like gavin stated, there is more than 1 way to contribute to the community. i spent countless hours searching the web on how to optimize my internet connection for my xbox. i even drilled a hole in the ceiling, so that i could connect my xbox directly to the router. i flashed tomato by shibby, i configured bandwidth limiter. the only thing that i wish i would be able to do is configure the qos... qos on tomato is impossible to understand for me. i know how it works, i just dont know how to set it up. if you or someone else would help me to configure that, i would be really happy. so now what i do is if someone else wants to use youtube when i play i have to limit his upload speed to max 5-10% of the upload, and than turn it off, since i dont want to limit them when i dont play. i would get a better internet connection, so that i would be able to offer my connection to others by hosting, but since i am broke i am not able to do that...

Try http://www.speedguide.net/sg_tools.php Many tools there to help you optimize your network connection. Might  help you track down stuff that might be effecting your router since you're using a homebrew router firmware.

This may also help http://vpnpick.com/dd-wrt-vs-tomato-vs-open-wrt/

[MaesterRowen 14]

I don't think charging for this is something that is going to happen.  It's just not our philosophy.   At best we find a way to solicit advertisers and display advertisements to users as means to recoup server costs.

 

Ultimately, our servers are running on ad money (and barely at that) and when server costs start to overcome ad revenue and donations (as the xbox scene gets smaller and smaller)- its going to be harder and harder to justify keeping it running.  This is something we are constantly weighing as we develop Nova.

[suprashake 97]

I don't think charging for this is something that is going to happen.  It's just not our philosophy.   At best we find a way to solicit advertisers and display advertisements to users as means to recoup server costs.

 

Ultimately, our servers are running on ad money (and barely at that) and when server costs start to overcome ad revenue and donations (as the xbox scene gets smaller and smaller)- its going to be harder and harder to justify keeping it running.  This is something we are constantly weighing as we develop Nova.

well said. 

[StaticPulse 262]

I don't think charging for this is something that is going to happen.  It's just not our philosophy.   At best we find a way to solicit advertisers and display advertisements to users as means to recoup server costs.

 

Ultimately, our servers are running on ad money (and barely at that) and when server costs start to overcome ad revenue and donations (as the xbox scene gets smaller and smaller)- its going to be harder and harder to justify keeping it running.  This is something we are constantly weighing as we develop Nova.

Hopefully when live is discontinued for the 360 enough people will come over to here to make the website  really attractive to advertisers. If worse came to worse and that didn't happen I would be willing to pay dues, its not entirely unreasonable, I just think the connect issues Dragon is having don't have anything to do with Link at all. Unless there is a load balancing issue or conflict with the test Nova server and the live server that is being used which can be expected to happen from time to time with any network.

[gavin_darkglider 1562]

There is always the other option, you could start developing link to work with other systems, not just the xbox 360, like Xlink Kai, which has been around forever. I figure if it works on the original xbox via XBMC,  the PSP, and the PS3 like like it does on the xbox, and maybe support some of the older systems like the gamecube, or ps2, then there is a chance that it could in theory take the place of Xlink Kai, as the idea is it doesnt require a computer in the middle. Not sure how feasable this is with older systems, but I can see it working on the PS3 at least.