StaticPulse 262 Posted June 17, 2015 how can it be my xbox and connection when there is a clear connection between the more players online, the slower the system link works? How do you know the connection is clear? Did you run a trace route on your buddies IP address and do a hop count check? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
felida 1653 Posted June 17, 2015 (Not sure if XB has gigabit ethernet or not) nah the xbox is only 100mb line.. as my TWC router has color coding for the connections to it.. but still.. the XB can only process so much data on stock, now with unity/Link plugin, that is custom data, which the XB wasn't originally intended for.. so the more stuff they put into it.. the longer it will take to process it.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xDRAGONxLuky 54 Posted June 17, 2015 Let me give you a lesson on bandwidth. Quick and simple really.... Your fastest connection speed will always be the slowest client on a peer to peer based game. In other words, that cheap ass who only subscribes to 5mbit ADSL is the one to bitch at for your game lag, that or that one guy from some foreign country who lives 4000 miles away who decided to play a game with you because of the hopcount from your router to his and everyone else who is in the game INCLUDING the MPLS route that your ISP uses to connect to other ISP's in order to forward the packets that make it possible to play a game with someone over the internet. If System LiNK relied on a centralized server (Like Xbox Live) then you would need something called an router with link aggregation and a few commercial lines to make it doable. In other words, take the advice just given to you, create a private room with people who live closer and have a decent internet connection to you to lower your ping rate.... If you have loading lag for link you might want to check the port forwarding config on your router and possibly enable QoS (Quality of Service) on your router if it has this feature to dedicate x amount of Local network bandwidth to your console. Using a hardline over wireless can help also depending on the distance between your console and your router and how many walls are in the way and whether or not they are just drywall/sheetrock or lathe and plaster meshed with chicken wire. yes i agree with you. thats why we kick and ban people that are from far away or have bad conection. but this thread is about how system link will handle lets say 800 people if its struggling with 300. i agree with all u said but that has nothing to do with systemlink itself Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StaticPulse 262 Posted June 17, 2015 nah the xbox is only 100mb line.. as my TWC router has color coding for the connections to it.. but still.. the XB can only process so much data on stock, now with unity/Link plugin, that is custom data, which the XB wasn't originally intended for.. so the more stuff they put into it.. the longer it will take to process it.. I can see that issue with the LiNK plugin as unless the devs have the source code used from the stock networking framework and just straight out modify that instead of piggybacking a plugin on top of it then you will always have latency like this. Nothing anyone here can really do about that. unless maybe a plugin that will allow you to aggregate the 100mbit and the wireless NIC as one connection to the router were made. You're still only going to be able to go as fast as your router and ISP will allow though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
felida 1653 Posted June 17, 2015 yes because the cheap bastards didnt want to invest more in servers. its the same as the internet providers. they get a lot of customers even tho their hardware cant support them and than they cut everyones connection a bit because they are overloaded. in my oppinion the same is happening on xbl. 1 server can support x people for the system to be responsive. they just say screw you and put more than x people on a server so they can have more cash for themselves. no, YOU are expecting V8 performance, out of a 3 cylinder engine here m8.. the ORIGINAL stock shit is only allowed so much to process.. and with the Link plugin, it is MORE than was originally intended.. so there is a bottleneck of processing power that is being shown, and you are bitching about it.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xDRAGONxLuky 54 Posted June 17, 2015 How do you know the connection is clear? Did you run a trace route on your buddies IP address and do a hop count check? ok i will refrase it. there is a corelation between number of players on system link and the responsivness of system link. so more players online means more sluggish system link. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuattroGam3r 508 Posted June 17, 2015 Or don't play with that guy who's connecting using wifi->wifi extender->bridge->router->ADSL 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
felida 1653 Posted June 17, 2015 I can see that issue with the LiNK plugin as unless the devs have the source code used from the stock networking framework and just straight out modify that instead of piggybacking a plugin on top of it then you will always have latency like this. Nothing anyone here can really do about that. unless maybe a plugin that will allow you to aggregate the 100mbit and the wireless NIC as one connection to the router were made. the link plugin uses the stock hud, just modified portions.. this is the bottleneck.. the modded hud calls for certain things of of the hdd, while being fed data from unity.. blah blah blah.. it can only process SO much.. (the stock hud is originally allotted so much processing power as is) layman's terms, try to copy something big on your PC, while downloading a movie or whatnot.. the HDD read/write speeds get affected.. as it can only do so much but case in point: think about how the XB1 has limitations to Dev's on their shit.. so much of the processor is reserved for the kinect commands.. which has been causing issues.. hence why M$ has recently cut that out and whatnot..(sorry im not completely technical with the explanation lol) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xDRAGONxLuky 54 Posted June 17, 2015 no, YOU are expecting V8 performance, out of a 3 cylinder engine here m8.. the ORIGINAL stock shit is only allowed so much to process.. and with the Link plugin, it is MORE than was originally intended.. so there is a bottleneck of processing power that is being shown, and you are bitching about it.. if i play in the morning and there are 30 people online the system link is lightning fast. but when i play in the evening when 300 people are connected the system link is slow. so how can it be lighting fast when only few people are on system link if its an xbox problem? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StaticPulse 262 Posted June 17, 2015 ok i will refrase it. there is a corelation between number of players on system link and the responsivness of system link. so more players online means more sluggish system link. Yes, but this has nothing to do with the players as it has everything to do with the path to forward data packets from your ISP to theirs. This link will give you a better idea on what I'm talking about https://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog49/presentations/Sunday/mpls-nanog49.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xDRAGONxLuky 54 Posted June 17, 2015 Or don't play with that guy who's connecting using wifi->wifi extender->bridge->router->ADSL omg... so we are again talking about in game lag? we all know by now that this has nothing to do with system link loading. and i would like to stress out that my only concern is what will happen if 800 people connect and still no one gave me an anwser... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuattroGam3r 508 Posted June 17, 2015 did I just get slapped? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
felida 1653 Posted June 17, 2015 did I just get slapped? i think he BAM'd you.. haha 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StaticPulse 262 Posted June 17, 2015 omg... so we are again talking about in game lag? we all know by now that this has nothing to do with system link loading. and i would like to stress out that my only concern is what will happen if 800 people connect and still no one gave me an anwser... If 800 people connect not much will happen at all as the games are hosted from the 30 people playing that specific game at that specific time. Now to connect to the lobby which would host the rooms which host the players, this might cause initial connection lag; however, that wouldn't effect the in-game bandwidth itself. That MPLS tutorial link I just gave you explains a lot at least how the connection made in-game is done over the ISP network. It will always try to forward the packets through the shortest distance path, but sometimes going the long way around is more efficient depending on how many people are sending data. Again, this has nothing to do with your console, your router, or System LiNK. Point being, Even if everything was done as good as it could be done, you will still get lag regardless of the server. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
felida 1653 Posted June 17, 2015 omg... so we are again talking about in game lag? we all know by now that this has nothing to do with system link loading. and i would like to stress out that my only concern is what will happen if 800 people connect and still no one gave me an anwser... and you a missing the point, systemlink loading is slow for YOU.. it is an issue on YOUR end.. not the unity server as i connected to unity on bops 2 when there ARE 300+ people playing, not 1 single issue on my end.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xDRAGONxLuky 54 Posted June 17, 2015 Yes, but this has nothing to do with the players as it has everything to do with the path to forward data packets from your ISP to theirs. This link will give you a better idea on what I'm talking about https://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog49/presentations/Sunday/mpls-nanog49.pdf if i understand correctly this is whats happening: - when 30 players play they are changing rooms, kicking people, looking for the players in the room and everytime you refresh you induce stress on the system link server. - when 300 people play the stress on the systemlink server is 10x higher and thats why it is slow since it has trouble handling all the refresh requets - what will happen if 800 people connect and refresh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuattroGam3r 508 Posted June 17, 2015 omg... so we are again talking about in game lag? we all know by now that this has nothing to do with system link loading. and i would like to stress out that my only concern is what will happen if 800 people connect and still no one gave me an anwser... Here's your answer, if 800 people connect your shit out of luck, the whole matrix will crash and no one will ever be on LiNK again. As far as I know, each room is it's own vpn, the creator is the tunnel to the server, others just jump on. At some point the server will stress (ever try to compile code?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xDRAGONxLuky 54 Posted June 17, 2015 and you a missing the point, systemlink loading is slow for YOU.. it is an issue on YOUR end.. not the unity server as i connected to unity on bops 2 when there ARE 300+ people playing, not 1 single issue on my end.. so basically this is how it goes down when there are lots of people on link: we play and a guy fro uk says damn the system link is really slow today and i try it and agree and another person from italy sais the same, and on and on. but again felida ur the pro because u play 1x per week Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
felida 1653 Posted June 17, 2015 if i understand correctly this is whats happening: - when 30 players play they are changing rooms, kicking people, looking for the players in the room and everytime you refresh you induce stress on the system link server. - when 300 people play the stress on the systemlink server is 10x higher and thats why it is slow since it has trouble handling all the refresh requets - what will happen if 800 people connect and refresh? and i will state again, i've been on with 300+ people playing bops 2.. not 1 single issue on my end.. it is on YOUR END so basically this is how it goes down when there are lots of people on link: we play and a guy fro uk says damn the system link is really slow today and i try it and agree and another person from italy sais the same, and on and on. but again felida ur the pro because u play 1x per week and look at the different parts of the world you've quoted.. and you know their ISP connections?? their bandwith allotments?? No.. odds are some douch is hosting with a slow connection, or their ISP's are slow.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StaticPulse 262 Posted June 17, 2015 if i understand correctly this is whats happening: - when 30 players play they are changing rooms, kicking people, looking for the players in the room and everytime you refresh you induce stress on the system link server. - when 300 people play the stress on the systemlink server is 10x higher and thats why it is slow since it has trouble handling all the refresh requets - what will happen if 800 people connect and refresh? No, there's a login server, and a lobby server most likely more than one. Logging in should be the only place you would get lag if 800 people connected simultaneously. All other lag will occur only in the game lobby (If looking for a room), the game room (if looking for a game), or the people in the game itself while they are playing the game. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xDRAGONxLuky 54 Posted June 17, 2015 If 800 people connect not much will happen at all as the games are hosted from the 30 people playing that specific game at that specific time. Now to connect to the lobby which would host the rooms which host the players, this might cause initial connection lag; however, that wouldn't effect the in-game bandwidth itself. this is what i am talking about. but if 30 people are connected it takes 5 seconds to load, if 300 people are connected, it takes up to 30 seconds to load what if 800 people connect? or even more? there is just so much that the server can handle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
felida 1653 Posted June 17, 2015 No, there's a login server, and a lobby server most likely more than one. Logging in should be the only place you would get lag if 800 people connected simultaneously. All other lag will occur only in the game lobby (If looking for a room), the game room (if looking for a game), or the people in the game itself while they are playing the game. i seriously think he just cant grasp that ISP's throttle people ALL the time.. and he just wants to ASSUME it's Unity server's fault.. lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StaticPulse 262 Posted June 17, 2015 and look at the different parts of the world you've quoted.. and you know their ISP connections?? their bandwith allotments?? No.. odds are some douch is hosting with a slow connection, or their ISP's are slow.. I swear to god, read the friggin TuT on MPLS... Not you Felida, you know what I'm talking about. Dragon, there are even pictures that illustrate what I'm talking about with path selection that occurs on MPLS and OSPF networks. BGP also if you live in Australia/Asia Here Dragon READ https://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog49/presentations/Sunday/mpls-nanog49.pdf AND I QUOTE: "How Does MPLS Traffic Engineering Work? Using RSVP-TE to reserve bandwidth across the network. Remember, an LSP is a “tunnel†between two points in the network. Under RSVP, each LSP has a bandwidth value associated with it. Using constrained routing, RSVP-TE looks for the shortest path with enough available bandwidth to carry a particular LSP. If bandwidth is available, the LSP is signaled across a set of links. The LSP bandwidth is removed from the “available bandwidth poolâ€. Future LSPs may be denied if there is insufficient bandwidth. They’ll ideally be routed via some other path, even if the latency is higher. Existing LSPs may be “preempted†for new higher priority LSPs. You can create higher and lower priority LSPs, and map certain customers or certain traffic onto each one. This isn’t traditional QoS, no packets are being dropped when bandwidthisn’t available, you’re simply giving certain traffic access to shorter paths" 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xDRAGONxLuky 54 Posted June 17, 2015 and look at the different parts of the world you've quoted.. and you know their ISP connections?? their bandwith allotments?? No.. odds are some douch is hosting with a slow connection, or their ISP's are slow..the person from uk that is hosting has fiber and i know that for a fact since he is in dragon clan. I swear to god, read the friggin TuT on MPLS... Not you Felida, you know what I'm talking about. Dragon, there are even pictures that illustrate what I'm talking about with path selection that occurs on MPLS and OSPF networks. BGP also if you live in Australia/Asia Here Dragon READ https://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog49/presentations/Sunday/mpls-nanog49.pdf will read it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
felida 1653 Posted June 17, 2015 this is what i am talking about. but if 30 people are connected it takes 5 seconds to load, if 300 people are connected, it takes up to 30 seconds to load what if 800 people connect? or even more? there is just so much that the server can handle. you seriously are missing some key points.. ISP's throttle their users, at different times of the day.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
