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yeah i forgot to mention that part that was the first thing i looked at lol i had another quick look around on Google and some people have the same issue and for some reason removing the avatars and then re loading em seems to resolve the issue or the issue remains ... if nxe2god doesn't work i will give that a shot ..... and the worst part is i am not even all that keen on the game .. i am only sticking with fixing it because its p*****g me off .. lol wife says im stubborn ... and she might have a point lol ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- yeah same problem and as i was trying it i had the dog licking my face / wife is laughing because im getting frustrated / kids are all like look at this whats that look how far i can put my finger up my nose yadda yadda yadda ..lol but i swear if the avatar thing doesn't fix it .. then im going to launch the game using a different method place the game snug inside the case take 2 or 3 steps back to reflect on how much time i have put in to this damn game ask the wife or son to open the window launch it right out the window and across the road problem solved !! lol ------------------------------------------------------------------------- last update on this ... so i completly removed the avatar files ... re downloaded the official m$ update for my dash placed em on usb .. unloaded dash launch ... jamp to the xbox dash ... stuck in the usb .... launched xex menu ... got the message to update ... hit yes ( only for the avatar ) ... let it do its little thing .. xbox re booted back on fsd3 ..... and .... and .... and .... BLACK OPS 2 WORKS !!! lol ... must have had a messed up file in there somewhere but its all working now ..... thanks for your help irishdave