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xDRAGONxLuky

[NOVA] Ping patch limit (Eliminate 99% of lag on link)

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I have a 5mb upload connection, doesn't change what others have, and that's how fast it takes in reality, their output to you.. 

and i'm not affiliated with the staff... so feel free to bitch at me, take your anger out on me, all i have done was give you answers on how to do the stuff you are requesting ;-) and i will just laugh at your comments.. but for real.. public is exactly that, public, now in USER created rooms, i could see your option being implemented, but for the default public rooms, no..

everything i said was meant for private rooms.

 

and thank u for taking time and sharing ur oppinion. :)

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Smaller rooms might be a thing we can do, but, the fact still remains that the rooms don't actually control how many join your game, i understand that private rooms are more likely to only have a single host, but...

I cannot speak for the entire team about what we will and will not do, however, i try to reply with things i know we won't even consider doing based on previous replies from the devs

Most of these things will not be coming to life any time soon either way, as we're still not ready for initial testing of NOVA by end-users, we've done some tests to check that the system is working, but we're approaching the point where we need to do a bit more stress testing

Most things that you guys request will likely be added later on as we're mainly focused on getting it all up and running right now with the stuff we've already planned to add, but, if your requests don't take too much time or so, it'll be included with first version, only time will tell what gets implemented and not :)

And yeah, i'm trying to help you solve the problem in the mean time aswell, there are solutions for most of these problems already available, they're not as simple or elegant as the ones you're requesting, but they'll work for the time being...

so i have 0% chance that this will be implemented because there are not enough developers.

so i will wait until nova will come out and than i will try my luck again.

 

i am 100% sure this would solve all the issues we have in bo2

the things i will ask after nova comes out:

- option to make smaller private rooms (option for 10, 18, 32 max players)

- the same as room leadership there would be room host. the person who creates the room givs the leadrship to the one that will kick and the title of room host to the one that would host (this is just for nova to know who is hosting). when a person would want to join he would be pinged, and if his ping is above x (we could test a bit to see what is the highest ping that does not induce to much lag, for example 180ms), he would not be able to join.

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so i have 0% chance that this will be implemented because there are not enough developers.

so i will wait until nova will come out and than i will try my luck again.

 

i am 100% sure this would solve all the issues we have in bo2

the things i will ask after nova comes out:

- option to make smaller private rooms (option for 10, 18, 32 max players)

- the same as room leadership there would be room host. the person who creates the room givs the leadrship to the one that will kick and the title of room host to the one that would host (this is just for nova to know who is hosting). when a person would want to join he would be pinged, and if his ping is above x (we could test a bit to see what is the highest ping that does not induce to much lag, for example 180ms), he would not be able to join.

I didn't say that, i'm just telling you that we're most likely going to wait a little with adding user stuff...

There is no 100% way to get rid of all of these issues you're having, someone will always find a way to bypass it if they really want to...

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everything i said was meant for private rooms.

and thank u for taking time and sharing ur oppinion. :)

It wasn't really an opinion, as I stated facts on how to do exactly what you were asking for..

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Getting a lag free game would be like finding the holy grail of gaming.It just ain't going to happen,it sure as hell can't be worse than it was on a ps2 in socom or HOA

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It wasn't really an opinion, as I stated facts on how to do exactly what you were asking for..

felida i read all the posts again. all u do is bitch.

 

i was thinking about how to make nova better and i came up with a concept that would  solve 90% of all issues we have on black ops 2 (the game that by faaaaaar most people play). ur only argument is there are not enough developers and i agree with u. u said nothing about the concept...

and i also agree that there are other ways to achive the same goal but this would be by faaaaaar the easyest way to use, since u would just select what is the max ping (since it is a private room) and all the people with ping lower than that can join.

 

u could just say: yeah the concept is amazing but we dont have developers to implement it.

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The upload broadband is effecting the game as well, and it doesnt have to influence the ping.

If I am uploading something on MEGA, I will be most likely "teleporting" step by step because the console cant upload my position fast enough, the ping will not be much higher. I already tested this with a friend.

@Luky
This is xTHORxYusuf by the way ;)
 

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The upload broadband is effecting the game as well, and it doesnt have to influence the ping.

If I am uploading something on MEGA, I will be most likely "teleporting" step by step because the console cant upload my position fast enough, the ping will not be much higher. I already tested this with a friend.

@Luky

This is xTHORxYusuf by the way ;)

Also, upload is what really affects others the most, download doesn't have a huge impact on others unless you're the host and thus need to get information from everyone else as to where they're at...

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felida i read all the posts again. all u do is bitch.

 

i was thinking about how to make nova better and i came up with a concept that would  solve 90% of all issues we have on black ops 2 (the game that by faaaaaar most people play). ur only argument is there are not enough developers and i agree with u. u said nothing about the concept...

and i also agree that there are other ways to achive the same goal but this would be by faaaaaar the easyest way to use, since u would just select what is the max ping (since it is a private room) and all the people with ping lower than that can join.

 

u could just say: yeah the concept is amazing but we dont have developers to implement it.

and i'm not affiliated with the dev's.. you seem to think there is unlimited resources with the HUD.. MAYBE if they made Aurora work without using the stock HUD, it could come to fruition.. but then again, XB only has 512mb of ram.. VERY limiting on what can be made/used.. and i don't just "bitch".. i gave you REALISTIC answers.. as to what could be done(small ammount of hud) vs. what is already implemented(matchmaking area)..  your idea is a GOOD one, YES.. i agree.. but seeing it come out, HIGHLY unlikely.. 

and if your idea DOES get implemented, next people would be bitching to have it run all the time.. more stress on unity/the host.. that's what i'm thinking of.. 2-3-4 steps ahead.. and that's what you seem to be missing from all of my answers.. there is a spot already on the site for the stuff you are asking.. like swizz said, not as "glamorous" as your idea, but then again.. if i was "dev'ing".. why create redundant stuff?? no one likes doing the same thing over and over, putting in resources in new stuff when the old/other is working just fine? 

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The upload broadband is effecting the game as well, and it doesnt have to influence the ping.

If I am uploading something on MEGA, I will be most likely "teleporting" step by step because the console cant upload my position fast enough, the ping will not be much higher. I already tested this with a friend.

@Luky

This is xTHORxYusuf by the way ;)

 

omg its you yusuf :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

is there a way to measure the upload speed? i guess if u can measure ping u can measure upload?

yusuf what if we make a fb group and i will add all dragons and all hungarians (tibits, chriss,...) and u add all the people u know that have good connection and each day we come up with a password. and everyone in that group that makes a room just uses that password to make it. so 1x per day u go on fb and check what the password is.

we could also use the group for talking about clan battles.

what do u think?

 

 

Also, upload is what really affects others the most, download doesn't have a huge impact on others unless you're the host and thus need to get information from everyone else as to where they're at...

i know that upload also is a problem but my idea was that if they have a really bad upload (like 0,1mb) or if they upload something, that that would affect ping. but i guess i was wrong.

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Its a nice idea, i think we can do this, but this will not help solving the area problems of course.

Just like we want to play with other Europeans, South Americans want to play with other people from their area, so they have a great game as well.

I think we should find a general solution for this. Cant tell how though :p

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and i'm not affiliated with the dev's.. you seem to think there is unlimited resources with the HUD.. MAYBE if they made Aurora work without using the stock HUD, it could come to fruition.. but then again, XB only has 512mb of ram.. VERY limiting on what can be made/used.. and i don't just "bitch".. i gave you REALISTIC answers.. as to what could be done(small ammount of hud) vs. what is already implemented(matchmaking area).. your idea is a GOOD one, YES.. i agree.. but seeing it come out, HIGHLY unlikely..
and if your idea DOES get implemented, next people would be bitching to have it run all the time.. more stress on unity/the host.. that's what i'm thinking of.. 2-3-4 steps ahead.. and that's what you seem to be missing from all of my answers.. there is a spot already on the site for the stuff you are asking.. like swizz said, not as "glamorous" as your idea, but then again.. if i was "dev'ing".. why create redundant stuff?? no one likes doing the same thing over and over, putting in resources in new stuff when the old/other is working just fine?
one of the reasons i wanted to somehow block people from joining if they have bad connection is because there are only aroun 5-8 really good hosts and because of people with bad connection joing all the time they get hugeee bullet lag. the host lags the most when people with bad connection join and they started to refuse to host (i 100% understand them). its impossible to kick all the time.


ok i just got another idea that would be sooooooo simple and very effective:
could u just make a list of all players that have an unity account? and the option to make a friend or block (like it is now when u search through rooms, but i would need a list of all players)
we could make a fb group and share what people have shitty connection (make a screenshot of what people need to be blocked). we would make a list of those people and everyone from our fb group would just go to xboxunity homepage, and tap the tab that would display all the people that have unity account (and not only those who currently play) and we would just block the people from our list. so no matter what person from our fb group would be the room leader, no one from the block list would be able to join us. this way we would not even need a password.

for example our leader has like 50 people on the block list and i know the hungaryan leader also has a huge block list and we could just combine them and everyone from that fb group would block them.



Its a nice idea, i think we can do this, but this will not help solving the area problems of course.
Just like we want to play with other Europeans, South Americans want to play with other people from their area, so they have a great game as well.
I think we should find a general solution for this. Cant tell how though :p
u overestimate the link players. the stupidity of people that play link is imense. we make a room and we tag it as EU and tooooooons of brazilians join...

we also tryed to beg people that lag to leave the room. and it worked.... ...... NOT :D

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This may be interesting for you Luky or some others:

You can block a player by simply "visiting" a link,

http://xboxunity.net/Resources/Lib/SetRelation.php?target=123456&Type=X

Type 0 Neither Blocked nor Friend
Type 1 Friend
Type 2 Blocked

123456=A players ID number (I do not mean the Account name).

If you wanna have a players ID number, you gotta check the room and player list of the game he is playing at the moment, for example Black Ops 2:

http://xboxunity.net/Resources/Lib/LinkInfo.php?titleid=415608C3
415608C3=Title ID of the game.

How to enter a room:

http://xboxunity.net/Resources/Lib/LinkJoinRoom.php?room=ROOMID

Here you will have to enter the Room ID. You can see all IDs of all currently active rooms on a games "room and player list page". Public Room 1 of Black Ops 2 would be for example:

http://xboxunity.net/Resources/Lib/LinkJoinRoom.php?room=153

This will work only if there is space for you in the room of course.

 

I guess LiNK v1 is completely working like this?

One thing I'd like to know is which link i have to visit to kick a specific player.
It would be much easier if I could do that at my PC, because after kicking someone LiNK is loading the room's player list again, which takes about a minute sometimes (at weekends).
 

You have to be logged in of course.

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This may be interesting for you Luky or some others:

You can block a player by simply "visiting" a link,

http://xboxunity.net/Resources/Lib/SetRelation.php?target=123456&Type=X

Type 0 Neither Blocked nor Friend

Type 1 Friend

Type 2 Blocked

123456=A players ID number (I do not mean the Account name).

If you wanna have a players ID number, you gotta check the room and player list of the game he is playing at the moment, for example Black Ops 2:

http://xboxunity.net/Resources/Lib/LinkInfo.php?titleid=415608C3

415608C3=Title ID of the game.

How to enter a room:

http://xboxunity.net/Resources/Lib/LinkJoinRoom.php?room=ROOMID

Here you will have to enter the Room ID. You can see all IDs of all currently active rooms on a games "room and player list page". Public Room 1 of Black Ops 2 would be for example:

http://xboxunity.net/Resources/Lib/LinkJoinRoom.php?room=153

This will work only if there is space for you in the room of course.

 

I guess LiNK v1 is completely working like this?

One thing I'd like to know is which link i have to visit to kick a specific player.

It would be much easier if I could do that at my PC, because after kicking someone LiNK is loading the room's player list again, which takes about a minute sometimes (at weekends).

 

You have to be logged in of course.

isnt this the same as going to http://xboxunity.net/ and search for your game and then click on the link button and block people?

 

the problem is only players that play are listed and they are in any order (alphabetical would be amazing), so that if we make an excel file with all the people that have lag (100 people at least), we could sort them alphabetically and if there would be a list of all players on http://xboxunity.net/ who have an unity account we could just go down the list and block. even tho u would have to block a lot of people it would not be time consuming.

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Its not hard to make a program that checks a txt file and compares the players IDs with the blocked IDs in your list and blocks the ones you didnt block yet. We could update the txt file like every day or whenever we blocked more people, but this would send 1 request per block to the link servers, and if you "have to" block many players, and if many people use this, this could mess up the servers, or even turn into a DDoS.

 

One very important thing I forgot to mention is this:

You can still join a room of someone, who blocked you. Just by entering it with xboxunity.net.

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Its not hard to make a program that checks a txt file and compares the players IDs with the blocked IDs in your list and blocks the ones you didnt block yet. We could update the txt file like every day or whenever we blocked more people, but this would send 1 request per block to the link servers, and if you "have to" block many players, and if many people use this, this could mess up the servers, or even turn into a DDoS.

 

One very important thing I forgot to mention is this:

You can still join a room of someone, who blocked you. Just by entering it with xboxunity.net.

yes swizzy please address this issue. people still can join even if blocked.

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I am going to try to answer what i can reasonably, and hopefully help with some of this.

First things, Blocked does not actually block someone, due to the complexity of when in the room and owner vs everyone and so on, its hard to block people.

It does lower the rooms they are in down the list on the HUD to avoid the conflict.

Second, Pinging each other to get results is not only difficult to implement with limited memory spaces, but also unlikely to result in much usable info and add massive slow downs on join, tyring to ping 8, 10, 15 people before you join a room is slow.

 

Finally smaller rooms could be possible, but why not just add a password and share with your friends? Or if you are owner kick people you don't want in your room.

One more thing, I will NOT be releasing a full list of users for you to make a blacklist, just cause you have a bad connection to them doesn't mean i do, or swizzy does. Thats a self centered solution and not whats best for the community.

 

There is a lot of limitations with Link as we are doing a virtual network for system link, and we have VERY tight memory limitations to work with in the plugin. It is not xbox live, it never will be.

 

And finally the complaint about not enough devs. This is a HOBBY platform we share with you for FREE. we make no money on this, and spend a LOT of time on it. So yes things take longer, but thats how HOBBY and HACK solutions are. We do NOT have time to answer all user requests and ideas, as we have lives and other paying jobs.

 

To be honest, you should be glad its still running as twice this year i came close to shutting it down completely. 

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Ok I will Ask one thing if i create room normaly i am leader an than i lose my connection leadeship jumps to some other player can jou do if  creator of the room comes back he gets hes leadership back automaticaly can you do that?

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I am going to try to answer what i can reasonably, and hopefully help with some of this.

First things, Blocked does not actually block someone, due to the complexity of when in the room and owner vs everyone and so on, its hard to block people.

It does lower the rooms they are in down the list on the HUD to avoid the conflict.

Second, Pinging each other to get results is not only difficult to implement with limited memory spaces, but also unlikely to result in much usable info and add massive slow downs on join, tyring to ping 8, 10, 15 people before you join a room is slow.

 

Finally smaller rooms could be possible, but why not just add a password and share with your friends? Or if you are owner kick people you don't want in your room.

One more thing, I will NOT be releasing a full list of users for you to make a blacklist, just cause you have a bad connection to them doesn't mean i do, or swizzy does. Thats a self centered solution and not whats best for the community.

 

There is a lot of limitations with Link as we are doing a virtual network for system link, and we have VERY tight memory limitations to work with in the plugin. It is not xbox live, it never will be.

 

And finally the complaint about not enough devs. This is a HOBBY platform we share with you for FREE. we make no money on this, and spend a LOT of time on it. So yes things take longer, but thats how HOBBY and HACK solutions are. We do NOT have time to answer all user requests and ideas, as we have lives and other paying jobs.

 

To be honest, you should be glad its still running as twice this year i came close to shutting it down completely. 

we do not complain about the lack of developers. we just say there are only few. we respect all the work you do for us. since i am not a developer and i contribute a shit to the developement i have no right to bitch about it. we just state it as a fact. we are happy we have the ones that are willing to code so that the system works.

 

for the blacklist, atleast people that live close would have similar block list and there are atleast 50 people that just lag on any host because they have 0,1mb connection or wireless or 10 people use their internet or some other reason. so that was the motivation behind that.

 

motivation behind smaller rooms was so that even people with 1mb upload would be able to host and offer my connection to others. this way me and others with 0,5-1 mb upload connection would not leach others people connection.

 

and i do get that we can make a room with password and share it with friends, but i dont want to exclude people with good connection. there are 350 bo2 players and lets say 200 have a good connection. hard to share the password with so many people.

 

this were only suggestions and ideas. i am not demanding anything.

and again my intent was to think about how to make nova better and if the idea is not possible because of xbox 360 limitations i understand it.

 

can i ask why u wanted to shut down link?

 

I WOULD LIKE TO THANK ALL THE DEVELOPERS. I ENJOJED COUNTLESS HOURS ON LINK AND I FOUND A LOT OF FRIENDS. THAN YOU.

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If it wouldnt be coding there wouldnt be solutions. There are always ways to optimize stuff.

We already have a user rating system. Maybe people could be able to rate people more precisely, and that informations are collected and calculated on unity. The system would tell you that you have a bad connection with a specific user.

Its getting complex.

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Ok I will Ask one thing if i create room normaly i am leader an than i lose my connection leadeship jumps to some other player can jou do if  creator of the room comes back he gets hes leadership back automaticaly can you do that?

no, basically it goes like this:

You create a game/room, YOUR xbox is the server.

Once you get kicked/shutdown the xbox, server is offline. Nothing can access the server, which is where the info is who was there, "game state" and stuff of that nature.

XBL does this differently, as ALL if that info is either stored on XBL or the games' server behind XBL.

JQE just stated Unity will NEVER be like live. So don't expect those types of things to be brought over to system link, as SUBSTANTIAL coding/servers would have to be developed to handle all of that workload, to include a server to host all the games and such, which treads into the "legality" of the issue. Simply put, anything trying to "emulate" live, will be shut down ASAP. M$ will be all over it/the people like Blizz has been over the people trying to emulate WoW/battle.net. Copyright infringement is what they will state, and will be correct in that, as Unity doesn't do anything to circumvent DRM/Copyrights or anything of that nature, and that is completely legal (thanks to GeoHotz and his case) at least here in the US. Other countries have different laws and such, but they pretty much will "whoop that ass" for C.I., just like the US will. (Demonoid, TPB, and several other sites/groups have felt this)

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Ok I will Ask one thing if i create room normaly i am leader an than i lose my connection leadeship jumps to some other player can jou do if  creator of the room comes back he gets hes leadership back automaticaly can you do that?

Read the info about NOVA, the answer to your question is there...

no, basically it goes like this:

You create a game/room, YOUR xbox is the server.

Once you get kicked/shutdown the xbox, server is offline. Nothing can access the server, which is where the info is who was there, "game state" and stuff of that nature.

XBL does this differently, as ALL if that info is either stored on XBL or the games' server behind XBL.

JQE just stated Unity will NEVER be like live. So don't expect those types of things to be brought over to system link, as SUBSTANTIAL coding/servers would have to be developed to handle all of that workload, to include a server to host all the games and such, which treads into the "legality" of the issue. Simply put, anything trying to "emulate" live, will be shut down ASAP. M$ will be all over it/the people like Blizz has been over the people trying to emulate WoW/battle.net.

Are you having trouble reading today? rooms == xboxunity things, have NOTHING to do with the game itself, it will be implemented with LiNKv2 as has been stated by MaesterRowen... infact, that feature is already working (if memory serves me right from minor tests i've been involved with)

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Read the info about NOVA, the answer to your question is there...

Are you having trouble reading today? rooms == xboxunity things, have NOTHING to do with the game itself, it will be implemented with LiNKv2 as has been stated by MaesterRowen... infact, that feature is already working (if memory serves me right from minor tests i've been involved with)

no not having trouble reading, just figured i'd go with every avenue on my answer. BUT you are right, "rooms" are unity, the "game" is the xbox.. feel free to delete my post/s ;-)

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To answer a few more things.

1) Rating was removed due to excessive abuse, it didn't work and people were getting temp bans for nothing

2) xDragonxLukyx or whatever, you need to work on tone. I didn't even read the last post, due to caps and other word choice in the begining. I found it offensive without even reading it. I often have the same issue with how i type, but yeah thought i would let you know.

3) We won't be controlling rooms by ping. Period.

4) As for leader, when a new leader is set, he has leader until he leaves at which point the original room leader has priority then it goes to who was in the room longest.

 

I thought about shutting it down as it gets exploited and hacked a lot, i don't have a lot of time, and its a lot of work. I don't make money its a lot of work, and fun sometimes, but its not a job, and sometimes it feels like it.

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