[Aurora] Integrated Emulators

[gavin_darkglider 1562]

I think it would be an awesome addition to aurora if phoenix added emulators directly into the dashboard. I know that would be a lot of work, and I know they added an option to launch roms via the dashboard, which hasnt worked for me, because I dont think that any of the emulators are updated for this feature, but it would be cool, if you could put all of your roms in their own folder based upon system, and just choose the game you want to play via aurora.

 

I figure with RetroArch360 source, it wouldnt be to hard to add most emulators into a new rendition of aurora. Some of the other stuff, like downloading box art might be harder, but I figure if surreal64 for the original xbox could figure out the box art based upon the info stored in the rom file, then aurora probably could also. Just an idea for future releases. 

 

I dont know about rewriting the mupen64 engine with the XDK, as I am not as adept with programming as I would like.(Took a few classes, so I know the basics, but not ready to do anything like hardware emulation), and if at all possible, to save on some of that memory being used by the Freestyle plugin, and the original HUD, maybe do it like the original Xbox emulator, where it unloads all of that stuff when you launch a game that requires more memory, such as N64 roms, or PS1 games, or even DreamCast games. 

 

It would be cool if you guys added game genie, and game shark support for the older systems, which would go in line with the aurora trainers.  

 

Also a nice media player that supports formats other then WMV9, such as mplayer for libxenon built in with network support, which I figure would be only a matter of adding conX support, and possibly dlna support also. I have always had problems streaming movies from my computer to my 360, because of having to re-encode, and then network transfer speeds. It seems that it takes 10 minutes before the videos start to play, and then it errors out like 5 minutes into the movie. 

 

I also think it would fix the problem I was having with gameboy emulator, as I have about 1500+ games for it, if you include the original gb, the gb color, and the gb advanced. when I try to open my gameboy emulator, it always freezes the xbox, as the system cant load all the titles, I always get fatal reset, then end up back at the dashboard. If I put 200 games in the folder, it works, so I am fairly certain that it is because of how many games it trys to load in the list.

 

And finally, a built in ruby, or python interpreter, or maybe both, so people can write mini games, or scripts to do all sorts of things. That was one of my favorite features from XBMC on the original xbox.

 

If this could be accomplished, you could also add a script , game genie/game shark file download/uploader, and an option to upload covers for the roms themself kinda like surreal 64 did on the original xbox. 

 

Just some ideas from a huge fan.

 

Thank you for reading, it would be cool to have one dashboard that handles everything, that is as simple as aurora is. I love the aurora interface, but some features, such as loading roms from aurora dont work with most emulators, as the emulators were never written to support that feature.  Keep up the good work, and cant wait to see what comes in the future. I know some of this stuff is a reach, but having one homebrew launcher that will run emulator roms native in the dashboard, with the look and would be awesome beyond belief. Dont get me wrong Aurora is awesome as it is, but these features would totally push it over the edge into the awesomely extraordinary category. 

[Swizzy 2083]

The ruby/python support isn't comming because of the complexity of it, besides... you can write indie games using XNA... the original Xbox didn't have this (thus ruby/python support in xbmc)

If you can find source code that's working (as-is, and is compileable) i can probably help add support for Aurora ROM Launching... nut honestly, i'm NOT going to spend alot of time searching for the source code of the various emulators out there... nor will i spend alot of time testing if it's actually working or not... i'm also not going to spend a shitload of time fixing various issues with it (mainly because i probably don't know what's actually causing it and have alot of other projects going on all the time)

[saywaking 289]

I think most of the suggestions are jobs for other devs. I assume phoenix will focus on their own stuff.

Retroarch should replace mupen libxenon. I think you have 32 RAM for the HUD and background system processes. You can't disable that.

[Swizzy 2083]

I think most of the suggestions are jobs for other devs. I assume phoenix will focus on their own stuff.

Retroarch should replace mupen libxenon. I think you have 32 RAM for the HUD and background system processes. You can't disable that.

I don't think we can unload it either... and it's not really the RAM that's the problem for emulators... it's mostly the underlying security checks which lay between your software and the hardware... but yeah, Phoenix will not start mucking about with various Emulators, we added the Launch Data stuff and the other emulator related things to make it easier for other developers to integrate their emulator with Aurora...

[gavin_darkglider 1562]

From what I can find here is the source code for all the versions of RetroArch, including the Libxenon, and XDK version. https://github.com/libretro/RetroArch If you need something different, I will keep looking, but from what I can see, this is the code you would need, and here is a link to the site, for libretro, which included all the needed API calls. http://www.libretro.com/ Go for it swizzy, this should cover most of the emulators. According to GitHub, and Libretro's website, It should be ready to compile with the xdk.

[saywaking 289]

Yes, and that's the job of the responsible developer(s), not Swizzys

They are working on the new versions, xdk development is in progress but any progress is better than none, i hope.

[gavin_darkglider 1562]

Yes, and that's the job of the responsible developer(s), not Swizzys

They are working on the new versions, xdk development is in progress but any progress is better than none, i hope.

Swizzy said he would look in to it, if I could find the source, the RetroArch/LibRetro team has made it as cross compatable as possible, and have split it into 2 seperate sections, a libretro library, and the retroarch front end. With the API calls, to the libretro library, and the documentation, it shouldnt be that hard to build in to aurora, or I would think it wouldnt be that hard. Then again, I dont know exactly what the developers of LibRetro/RetroArch were thinking when they wrote it, or how hard it would be to integrate it into aurora, which is basically a simple launcher app. Albeit a very nice launcher app, that beats the crap out of the rest, its potential has yet to be reached. I just think it would be awesome to have 1 app for everything, Trainers, Emulation, File Management, Video Playing, etc. 

 

As for how retroarch works, from what I am reading is their is a backend library for api calls, and modules/librarys for different emulators you can add to it. As Retroarch has already been ported to the xbox 360, if you can integrate a new frontend interface into aurora, then all you should need to do is copy the needed files from the existing retroarch 360, and if all goes well, it will work. This is also nice, as people could get the support for the emulators they want from xbox unity, instead of having them all built in automatically. it also appears that libretro supports more then just emulators, such as mplayer support, and there is a mupen64,psp, and ps1 port to libretro already, so if those librarys get ported to the xbox, it would be real easy to implement later.  

[Swizzy 2083]

looking at the code they have the mechanics in there already, just need to add support for the Aurora Launch Data... should be relatively straightforward, however... i do not know if i'll be able to compile it as-is with the data on github, reading the documentation they mention libretro has to be pre-compiled and put in the correct directory with the correct name to compile for XDK... where do i find this? i don't know... don't really feel much like doing alot of research into it either atm... maybe you can find it?

https://github.com/libretro/RetroArch/blob/master/frontend/platform/platform_xdk.c#L299 <--- the mecanics are in place here if you understand programming (which i'm not sure you do?)

[gavin_darkglider 1562]

looking at the code they have the mechanics in there already, just need to add support for the Aurora Launch Data... should be relatively straightforward, however... i do not know if i'll be able to compile it as-is with the data on github, reading the documentation they mention libretro has to be pre-compiled and put in the correct directory with the correct name to compile for XDK... where do i find this? i don't know... don't really feel much like doing alot of research into it either atm... maybe you can find it?

https://github.com/libretro/RetroArch/blob/master/frontend/platform/platform_xdk.c#L299 <--- the mecanics are in place here if you understand programming (which i'm not sure you do?)

For the most part I dont understand the programming, other then some beginner C,C++,C# and Visual Basic, back in like 2004 i havnt touched it since. You want programmers, that would be my brother not me, but he doesnt develop anything except apple and ios apps.

As for the github, and the needed librarys, I saw that also, and just sent a PM to the guy over at libretro who was developing the xbox 360 port. From what I can tell so far, he/she stopped developing it when their devkit broke, and didnt have the money to replace it. I asked if I could get all the needed files, source code, librarys, etc and am waiting to hear back.

From what I can tell so far from what I have read over their libretro can be used for more then just emulators, and retroarch is just a loader/front end for it. as for the emulators, it appears they are like DLL files that work with libretro. so based upon my understanding of it, if the phoenix devs added the libretro backend, the emulator files are already compiled, and should be able to be copied from retroarch 360, and then all that would really need to be added to aurora would be a rom loader, and controller/backend settings for different emulator modules/dlls, which i am thinking could be released via xbox unity. I will post back when I here back from SquarePusher over at libretro. Thank you swizzy for actually taking the Idea seriously, and it appears that there is a ffmpeg module for libretro also, so that could be added on also, in the future.

[Swizzy 2083]

http://www.libretro.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2626 <--- I think you somewhat missunderstood what i meant... i'm not adding it as part of Aurora, i'm going to try and help make the emulators themselves support autostart from aurora...

If we'd be adding every single Emulator out there we'd have a well over 200MB Release, just to make those wanting to use Emulators happy... and... honestly, there aren't that many that care about all of this... look at RetroArch release package for instance, it's over 100MB... We're not looking to make a AIO package with EVERYTHING, we're looking to make things easy to access and have a fast & clean dashboard where you can find everything you really need... now, we added this support in 0.2b so that the emulator developers could add autostart support if they didn't already have that, and/or add support for our format...

After some tinkering i think i understand how to compile it... BUT! they're not really mentioning what i need to compile the 360 version of it, i'm guessing i'm going to be needing all of the shit for windows compilation also as i currently cannot compile jack shit of what they've got on their github as-is, for instance i tried compiling the snes9x-next repo, it give me 102 compiler errors... this isn't normal for something that's been released, RetroArch give me less errors (22) but... still... wtf?

[saywaking 289]

Is this even possible without changing whole Aurora concept? I doubt Aurora will be on libretro base. What i read here is a launcher, not capability of emulation. If its a launcher you will still need the Emulator or RetroArch core installed somewhere if im correct. Dreamboy was working on a PCSX-R Update which is going to have the launcher possibilities for Aurora.

You will need the libretro_xdk360.lib file in the output folder. Could not find out where its from yet.

Edit: Swizzy is quick

[gavin_darkglider 1562]

http://www.libretro.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2626 <--- I think you somewhat missunderstood what i meant... i'm not adding it as part of Aurora, i'm going to try and help make the emulators themselves support autostart from aurora...

If we'd be adding every single Emulator out there we'd have a well over 200MB Release, just to make those wanting to use Emulators happy... and... honestly, there aren't that many that care about all of this... look at RetroArch release package for instance, it's over 100MB... We're not looking to make a AIO package with EVERYTHING, we're looking to make things easy to access and have a fast & clean dashboard where you can find everything you really need... now, we added this support in 0.2b so that the emulator developers could add autostart support if they didn't already have that, and/or add support for our format...

After some tinkering i think i understand how to compile it... BUT! they're not really mentioning what i need to compile the 360 version of it, i'm guessing i'm going to be needing all of the shit for windows compilation also as i currently cannot compile jack shit of what they've got on their github as-is, for instance i tried compiling the snes9x-next repo, it give me 102 compiler errors... this isn't normal for something that's been released, RetroArch give me less errors (22) but... still... wtf?

I am still waiting to hear back from the admin over at Libretro who ported this to the xbox, another member said that everything needed to compile this was on github. I can see how adding all of this to aurora would make the release huge, but I figured if libretro was part of aurora, and you guys added your own front end, which as far as I can tell is what retroarch is, all the actual emulators are like DLL files that are added in, which could easily be added to xbox unity, as support for them is added to aurora, as some of them will still need to be ported, etc. I dont know how much work this would be, or how much time it would take as I am not as adept with programming as you are, I just think it would be awesome to have an all in 1 app for the xbox. eg. game launcher, emulator core engine(libretro), video player(which libretro already has an ffmpeg library), etc. and all that would really need to be done is to add libretro to aurora. 

 

As I said this is beyond the scope of what I do, I managed to get my hands on the leaked FSD code, and it was above my head, so I am sure all this is to. Unfortunatly, I dont have that anymore, because someone stole my laptop last week. But I figured it would be a good place to start for learning things with the xdk, and gettting into programming again.

[Swizzy 2083]

It's great when the guy replying to the thread spreads lies...

The xbox 360 DOES support loading/unloading dynamic libraries... that's something Aurora does, FSD also did that... not to mention Dashlaunch... all of 'em support it... then obviously it's supported on the console! >_< the problem is that they don't know how

[saywaking 289]

the lib is built with these scripts i assume

https://github.com/libretro/libretro-super

the documentation and naming could have been better.

[Swizzy 2083]

the lib is built with these scripts i assume

https://github.com/libretro/libretro-super

the documentation and naming could have been better.

Those are for the autobot i think... the nightly compiler...

[gavin_darkglider 1562]

It's great when the guy replying to the thread spreads lies...

 

If you are talking about me on this, I was misinformed, and not trying to spread lies. When I wrote this thread, it was under the suggestions for aurora, not about modifying emulators, so when you said you would look into it, if I could find you the source code, I was under the impression, that you were planning on looking in to adding libretro into aurora, not that you would look into making the existing version compatible with the aurora rom launcher feature. My bad.

 

edit: I am guessing if you arent talking about me, you are talking about the person replying to the thread I created over at libretro forums. I still havnt heard back from squarepusher over their, as he would be the one to talk to. I set him a pm yesterday for more info on the xbox port, but am still waiting.

[Swizzy 2083]

If you are talking about me on this, I was misinformed, and not trying to spread lies. When I wrote this thread, it was under the suggestions for aurora, not about modifying emulators, so when you said you would look into it, if I could find you the source code, I was under the impression, that you were planning on looking in to adding libretro into aurora, not that you would look into making the existing version compatible with the aurora rom launcher feature. My bad.

 

edit: I am guessing if you arent talking about me, you are talking about the person replying to the thread I created over at libretro forums. I still havnt heard back from squarepusher over their, as he would be the one to talk to. I set him a pm yesterday for more info on the xbox port, but am still waiting.

Yeah, was talking about him, not you

[gavin_darkglider 1562]

I figured as much, when I checked that post this morning, and saw what had been posted over there. as I said, I will forward you what squarepusher over there says if he/she ever gets back to me.

[gavin_darkglider 1562]

According to that other guy on the libretro forums, squarepusher said it would be easier if you chat with him on irc

 

here is a copy of the post. Actually, Swizzy, would you mind coming to #retroarch on Freenode IRC? Squarepusher said that would probably be the easiest way to discuss.

[saywaking 289]

@Swizzy

What was the problem? How do we compile now? Looks like you got the information

[Swizzy 2083]

@Swizzy

What was the problem? How do we compile now? Looks like you got the information

Well, i got one of the cores compiled... it was a code issue... which Squarepusher fixed

[gavin_darkglider 1562]

I am happy to hear that, it appears that libretro is fairly powerful, with all the cores that can be added to it, I didnt realize that it was more of an api for writing cross platform emulators/games until yesterday. lol. and like I was saying before, if the library was added directly into aurora, then people could download the cores themselves from xbox unity, which means more emulators that get updated, and it would also keep the size of the aurora releases down(Assuming the core api for libretro doesnt compile to be over 100MB on its own), and the people who dont use emulators on their box wouldnt have to download the emulation cores, but with other things like ffmpeg already as a core that can be downloaded for libretro, I can see that being used, especially if it gets added to the plugin, then people might be able to do live game recording(Not sure how feasable this would be with the plugin memory issues), etc) I know this probably wont happen, but it would be awesome if it did. Either way, I personally cant wait to see the next version of Aurora, especially since the FTP issues have been fixed.

[Swizzy 2083]

FFMpeg is for playback, not recording... and no, we won't be adding game recording... there's just not enough memory/power left to make it have any kind of quality without having an impact on the game experience itself...

i'm not sure that ffmpeg has been ported to Xbox 360 yet... if it has, then it's useable... if not; well... then there's no use for it...

Not all cores are compatible with Xbox 360 as-is right now... there's still some work to be done on quite a few of them...

[gavin_darkglider 1562]

Yeah, I figured as much, looking through the github stuff, it looks like some of the main emulators have been updated in the last couple of hours, but things like ffmpeg, and mupen64+ have not been ported for the 360. but I figure if there is interest in from the xbox homebrew community, maybe the guys over there will start porting the rest of the cores over to the xbox. Especially if you and team phoenix show an interest in it. As I said before, if there is anything else I can do to help let me know, as I have already stated, I dont have much programming experience, but I do want to help contribute to the scene in any way I can, as I love what is being done, and dont understand personally why most of the big names in xbox homebrew have stopped developing for the 360. Anyway with that being said, I appreciate what is still being done, and would donate to the cause, but I dont have any money, so if you need research done or anything for these new features, I have no problem doing that, it is the least I can do. I also figure since I use aurora, and phoenix is actually taking ideas from the community, which teamfsd really didnt, that I am going to take advantage of that at every chance I can. As I said, what ever I can do to help make it a more awesome dash, just hit me up.

[Swizzy 2083]

Phoenix and TeamFSD are largely the same ppl you know